tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post114534044991116027..comments2024-01-29T06:02:39.583-08:00Comments on Suzanne's Bookshelf: Women in Brethren ChurchesSuzanne McCarthyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-1145437564247265692006-04-19T02:06:00.000-07:002006-04-19T02:06:00.000-07:00Thank you, everyone, for great responses. I notice...Thank you, everyone, for great responses. <BR/><BR/>I notice that the ESV has a very good translation for 1 Cor. 11 that keeps headship in the context of marriage. There the couple can discuss these things privately with reference to the mutuality that is taught in 1 Cor. 7. As in this matter so in every day life, mutual understanding for couples, and recognition that all women are responsible to respond to God, not to 'worthy men' as is taught in <I>Biblical Manhood and Womanhood</I>.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-1145426288543518602006-04-18T22:58:00.000-07:002006-04-18T22:58:00.000-07:00There is an excellent article on CBE by Gordon Fee...There is an excellent article on CBE by Gordon Fee.<BR/><A HREF="http://www.cbeinternational.org/new/E-Journal/2006/06winter/06winterfee.html" REL="nofollow">The cultural contsxt of Ephesians 5:18-6:9</A><BR/><BR/>There certainly is no break between vers 21 and 22 as if the previous is about church and the following is about family.Ruud Vermeijhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06947453585488967314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-1145392806459198302006-04-18T13:40:00.000-07:002006-04-18T13:40:00.000-07:00That would cause very innapropriate behaviour if w...<I>That would cause very innapropriate behaviour if women all responded to one man's teaching, leadership and 'strength' (as John Piper puts it) but their husbands did not, because it was not explicitly their responsibility to do so. How would the husbands feel?</I><BR/><BR/>A unique perspective, and very cool. Thank you. <BR/><BR/>Wayne Leman,<BR/><BR/><I>In fact, there is no mention of headship of men in the church. This has come as something of a surprise to me, but as far as I can tell from the biblical texts, it is true.</I><BR/><BR/>Wow. and ...<BR/><BR/>Lingamish,<BR/><BR/><I>Paul never says something like "Assembly submit to your overseer." If he had I think you would be able to strengthen the argument that the Pastor/Church model is biblical. As it is, I wonder... </I><BR/><BR/>Wow again. <BR/><BR/>Thank you for those two comments. I will file both those responses away!Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-1145379512184054812006-04-18T09:58:00.000-07:002006-04-18T09:58:00.000-07:00Suzanne,Thank you for allowing us to listen in on ...Suzanne,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for allowing us to listen in on this process. As I reflected on your post, I thought about how often Paul uses the metaphor of a family to describe the assembly (which is itself a metaphor). While I enjoyed Kenny Pearce's recent explanation of EKKLESIA I wonder if OIKOS was meant to be the guiding metaphor for "church." For example, we talk about "the country of Canada", but when we do, it doesn't call to mind "the countryside" per se but a geo-political entity.<BR/><BR/>The prime example of this is Paul's instruction to Timothy in 1 Tim. 5:1-2. All his relations to members of the assembly are described in familial terms.<BR/><BR/>If you compare verses 5&15 in 1 Tim. 3 you'll see that there is quite a bit of free variation in the use of OIKOS and EKKLESIA. <BR/><BR/>There is a significant mismatch between the EKKLESIA of Paul's writings and the "church" of today. As I mentioned at Better Bibles, Paul never says something like "Assembly submit to your overseer." If he had I think you would be able to strengthen the argument that the Pastor/Church model is biblical. As it is, I wonder...David Kerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13140007604009678479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-1145378998353898082006-04-18T09:49:00.000-07:002006-04-18T09:49:00.000-07:00great, respectful, intuitive thoughts suzanne. i ...great, respectful, intuitive thoughts suzanne. i am encouraged at the desire for dialog. please keep interacting, i see light being shed on these topics, and light is always life-giving.bobbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09236324338161051924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-1145375267614238292006-04-18T08:47:00.000-07:002006-04-18T08:47:00.000-07:00Thanks for responding, Suzanne.Your response is no...Thanks for responding, Suzanne.<BR/><BR/>Your response is not in the least bit offensive.<BR/><BR/>On the contrary. <BR/><BR/>You made a well-balanced observation/point.<BR/><BR/>Enjoy reading your blog.<BR/><BR/>MargitGMargitGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01285321179747804073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-1145374483294374622006-04-18T08:34:00.000-07:002006-04-18T08:34:00.000-07:00(Headship refers to marriage not to behaviour in t...<I>(Headship refers to marriage not to behaviour in the assembly.)</I><BR/><BR/>Sarah Sumner makes this same point in her book, <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0830823913/104-7910467-2367937?v=glance&n=283155" REL="nofollow">Men and Women In Church</A>. If we read the biblical texts on headship very carefully (and literally), there is no mention of women submitting to any <B>eadship</B> of men in the church, other than their own head, their husband, in their marriage. In fact, there is no mention of headship of men in the church. This has come as something of a surprise to me, but as far as I can tell from the biblical texts, it is true.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your helpful post, Suzanne.Wayne Lemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18024771201561767893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-1145342777319305972006-04-17T23:46:00.000-07:002006-04-17T23:46:00.000-07:00I know of a Biblical example of mutual responsibil...I know of a Biblical example of <I>mutual</I> responsibility (though in the private sphere.)<BR/>1 Cor. 7:3-5Ruud Vermeijhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06947453585488967314noreply@blogger.com