tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post4486903989905775196..comments2024-01-29T06:02:39.583-08:00Comments on Suzanne's Bookshelf: Authority Part 1Suzanne McCarthyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-16120148338445026562007-10-03T00:15:00.000-07:002007-10-03T00:15:00.000-07:00Scott,It is a good article for generating discussi...Scott,<BR/><BR/>It is a good article for generating discussion. The categories are clear. However, the categories are hierarchical in reality but I don't remember if that is mentioned. For example, harm/dare is dominant over fairness/reciprocity. We don't care about reciprocity if our basic lives are unsafe. So there is a ladder of importance. <BR/><BR/>Also some values are interpreted as other values. Purity might be associated with either care or reciprocity. For example, polygamy can be considered a purity issue but it also is a violation of reciprocity. <BR/><BR/>I have two thoughts on authority respect. First, it was envisioned in a stratified society. But now it seems that it is alright to be resistant to some forms of authority but not others. Men who feel women should be in submission may be deeply antihierarchical in other ways.<BR/><BR/>Second, authority is also subject to harm/care. If a society feels threatened then the value of authority is higher. <BR/><BR/>We do need respect for institutions which are accountable. However, anyone who is in a position in which they are not directly accountable may behave in ways that do not engender respect. So respect for position rather than those who fulfill the requirements of the position, is of debatable usefulness. <BR/><BR/>However, all school teachers have to have some respect even if they are not very good. I'll have to think about this. <BR/><BR/>A school teacher who was weak or incompetent needs to be supported by administration. But it the teacher did anything harmful, then out the door. <BR/><BR/>Ultimately all other categories of morality should be subject to a certain degree to harm/care.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-71100718220550351362007-10-02T07:38:00.000-07:002007-10-02T07:38:00.000-07:00scott--thanks for sharing it with me. I will respo...scott--<BR/><BR/>thanks for sharing it with me. I will respond to the article this evening.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your 'authenticity'.<BR/><BR/>suzanneSuzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-1733769951938759312007-10-02T03:02:00.000-07:002007-10-02T03:02:00.000-07:00suzanne--actually, the intimacy model is from my m...suzanne--<BR/><BR/>actually, the intimacy model is from my master's thesis, 'justice responses rooted in relationship.' i'm about ready to rethink it, and some other papers from my past, on my 'agnostic lectionary' blog. just waitin' for advent 1, year a, in november.<BR/><BR/>thanks for the encouragement.<BR/><BR/>peace--<BR/><BR/>scottAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-1003609256529837692007-10-01T23:50:00.000-07:002007-10-01T23:50:00.000-07:00on the outer edge is 'courtesy.' a bit deeper is '...<I>on the outer edge is 'courtesy.' a bit deeper is 'hospitality.' deeper still is 'sharing stories.' and at the center of this circle is 'mindfulness of each others needs, desires, and fears.'<BR/><BR/>there's a deepening of intimacy from the outer edges to the center. the outer edges, in my post-modern approach, begin in courtesy, with the assumption of control and power. i am 'easily swayed' to intimacy, thru authentic dialog of 'shared stories.'<BR/><BR/>authority from authenticity, is, in my book(!), the very best kind. all other authority is contrived, and i question it at every turn.</I><BR/><BR/>If you haven't written a book on this topic yet, maybe you should. This seems to be a very useful framework for human relations. <BR/><BR/>I have read the article but don't have time to respond tonight. Thanks so much.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-86528021007444991212007-10-01T14:40:00.000-07:002007-10-01T14:40:00.000-07:00suzanne--there is a fascinating article about mora...suzanne--<BR/><BR/>there is a fascinating article about morals, authority, purity, fairness, compassion here:<BR/><BR/>http://faculty.virginia.edu/haidtlab/articles/haidt.graham.2007.when-morality-opposes-justice.pdf<BR/><BR/>it is this:<BR/>Haidt, J., & Graham, J. (2007). When morality opposes justice: Conservatives have moral intuitions that liberals may not recognize. Social Justice Research, 20, p. 98-116.<BR/><BR/>i would love to know your thoughts on this article, especially the authority portion.<BR/><BR/>peace-<BR/><BR/>scottscott grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12334188123201041182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-73473168564247127532007-09-30T16:59:00.000-07:002007-09-30T16:59:00.000-07:00That's very useful advice Scott. Have I met you in...That's very useful advice Scott. Have I met you in the blogosphere before? Your name sounds familiar. <BR/><BR/>Shared stories is basically what this blog is about.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-4314899251395179032007-09-30T16:38:00.000-07:002007-09-30T16:38:00.000-07:00suzanne--i can only tell you about my 'circle of i...suzanne--<BR/><BR/>i can only tell you about my 'circle of ideals.' and circle it is.<BR/><BR/>on the outer edge is 'courtesy.' a bit deeper is 'hospitality.' deeper still is 'sharing stories.' and at the center of this circle is 'mindfulness of each others needs, desires, and fears.'<BR/><BR/>there's a deepening of intimacy from the outer edges to the center. the outer edges, in my post-modern approach, begin in courtesy, with the assumption of control and power. i am 'easily swayed' to intimacy, thru authentic dialog of 'shared stories.'<BR/><BR/>authority from authenticity, is, in my book(!), the very best kind. all other authority is contrived, and i question it at every turn.<BR/><BR/>just my nature.<BR/><BR/>peace--<BR/><BR/>scottAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-84294968965113007252007-09-30T16:22:00.000-07:002007-09-30T16:22:00.000-07:00Scott, - just have a chuckle at my expense. I was ...Scott, <BR/><BR/>- just have a chuckle at my expense. I was in a hurry and read your comment "in my book" in a literalist way. <BR/><BR/>So let me start over. If I enter this dialog about power and authority, I can't have the intention of proving my point, or proselytizing the other side. I have to be prepared that we just talk and see what happens. That is tough for me, but I am working on it. <BR/><BR/>I see very little in the scriptures which teaches about using authority between Christians. Lots about social and civil aspects of authority. <BR/><BR/> But what are the ideals in human interaction, that is more to the point.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-35351876956580674492007-09-30T15:26:00.000-07:002007-09-30T15:26:00.000-07:00suzanne--i don't get it.what was the great point?w...suzanne--<BR/><BR/>i don't get it.<BR/><BR/>what was the great point?<BR/><BR/>what book should i be writing?<BR/><BR/>scottAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-53348263245545571162007-09-30T14:24:00.000-07:002007-09-30T14:24:00.000-07:00Hi Scott,You make a great point. What book have yo...Hi Scott,<BR/><BR/>You make a great point. What book have you written? <BR/><BR/>SuzanneSuzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-45994867576851165592007-09-30T13:27:00.000-07:002007-09-30T13:27:00.000-07:00suzanne--it is all about authority, isn't it? it'...suzanne--<BR/><BR/>it is all about authority, isn't it? it's all about who is in control.<BR/><BR/>as a post modernist, my beginning communication premise is that all communication is about power and manipulation. in my book, it is up to the communicator, in responding dialog, to prove that his/her intent is not manipulation or power. i can easily be swayed, but i'm sure that much literature especially, is about control.<BR/><BR/>i appreciate your post-modern starting points.<BR/><BR/>in a post modern world, it is up to the proclaimer to prove something other than power or manipulation in the communicator's intent.<BR/><BR/>peace--<BR/><BR/>scottAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-44152126489771424022007-09-30T11:37:00.000-07:002007-09-30T11:37:00.000-07:00Interesting thoughts. If one thoroughly researches...Interesting thoughts. <BR/><BR/>If one thoroughly researches Biblical teachings about authority, he will come to a different conclusion regarding what authority is that Christians are to exercise and anyone, including a woman, is not to be exercising. Similarly if one researches all else Scripture has to say about women, one will necessarily conclude that God has used women in ways already exercising godly authority by His Spirit.<BR/><BR/>One of the problems with the gender hierarchalists use of 1 Tim. 2 is that he/she stops thinking and researching at that Scripture. It is treated as a stand alone all encompassing thesis in eight Greek words. Eight words of which some feel inclined to build upon to the tune of whatever seems good to them.Just A Bereanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17461722019395764790noreply@blogger.com