tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post4754028368908873664..comments2024-01-29T06:02:39.583-08:00Comments on Suzanne's Bookshelf: Open Letter to David KotterSuzanne McCarthyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-16010648077113170552008-01-16T18:19:00.000-08:002008-01-16T18:19:00.000-08:00Thank you, John, for stopping in. Your work on Pla...Thank you, John, for stopping in. Your work on Plato sounds very interesting. <BR/><BR/>I am not sure how either Plato or Aristotle have influenced Paul, not do I know how useful these quotes are to understanding what Paul meant be <I>kephale.</I> however, ...<BR/><BR/>It seems to me that each side is trying to prove that their view is one possible view of <I>kephale.</I> While this may be interesting, all it does is show that we should have more respect for each other's side. <BR/><BR/>I would critique Grudem for saying that <I>kephale</I> cannot mean "source" and must mean "authority," and you would critique someone for saying that kephale must mean "source," and cannot mean "authority." Fair enough. <BR/><BR/>Ultimately, this should give us more respect for each other and free us up to deal with the real issues in life, which are helping the poor and downtrodden.<BR/><BR/>Please see <A HREF="http://powerscourt.blogspot.com/2008/01/response-to-john-mark-reynolds.html" REL="nofollow">my post of today. </A>Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-69792121772563467202008-01-16T09:45:00.000-08:002008-01-16T09:45:00.000-08:00In answer to a question, I should also note that P...In answer to a question, I should also note that Plato links the Timaeus to the Republic at the start of Timaus so looking at his use of terms in both and comparing them is of particular interest.The Sharkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03851874694383578654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-86226218038961354402008-01-16T09:38:00.000-08:002008-01-16T09:38:00.000-08:00I should mention that it seems an extraordinary cl...I should mention that it seems an extraordinary claim to make to say that Paul would have been more likely to have read Aristotle than Plato. <BR/><BR/>Aristotle, sadly, was in relative eclipse for much of the Hellenistic period. The neo-Platonists included such world class figures as Plotinus. <BR/><BR/>Check out the references to Plato in Hellenistic philosophers and Greek thinkers as compared to Aristotle. <BR/><BR/>Note the influence of Plato on Philo and on the translators of the LXX. <BR/><BR/>For my own sake:<BR/><BR/>Can you reference a standard work in Hellenistic philosophy that claims a larger cultural influence for Aristotle during the Hellenistic period than Plato?The Sharkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03851874694383578654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-24537313223047905112008-01-16T09:25:00.000-08:002008-01-16T09:25:00.000-08:00Let me add the text in question in Timaeus 44d:. ....Let me add the text in question in Timaeus 44d:<BR/><BR/>. . .which body we now call the “head,” it being the most divine part and reigning over all the parts within us."<BR/><BR/>In Timaeus, Plato uses the literal head as a ruler or command center. This work was of major importance in the East in shaping religious and philosophical views. Not all works are equal . . . and Plato's influence and the particular influence of this work (Timaeus) was massive. <BR/><BR/>Therefore, when my students were taught that "head" as ruler was a weird or post-NT reading, they were misinformed.<BR/><BR/>That seems a limited enough claim!<BR/><BR/>JMNRThe Sharkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03851874694383578654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-64587725856334529562008-01-16T08:50:00.000-08:002008-01-16T08:50:00.000-08:00Hello,This is John Mark Reynolds. My dissertation ...Hello,<BR/><BR/>This is John Mark Reynolds. <BR/><BR/>My dissertation was on Plato and his view of the soul. My Ph.D. included work in Homeric and Classical Greek. I read the Republic at least once a year and work from the Greek text.<BR/><BR/>You can read a revised form of my argument about soul in my book on Plato's psychology from University Press of America.<BR/><BR/>My claim in the post was quite modest. Some students I teach have pastors who claim "head" never meant "authority" before the NT period. Since Plato uses the word in this way (which you do not dispute) this claim is wrong. <BR/><BR/>We of course would not want to use Plato's view as our own, but it does show that the absurd claim that head never means "authority" is wrong. <BR/><BR/>I clearly stated that this did not settle Paul's use of the term.<BR/><BR/>Finally, the use of the character Cephalus in Republic (which is a fiction) is of literary interest. The conversation could have been placed anywhere using anyone. <BR/><BR/>Why was this character used? The Republic stresses his religious role (he leaves to make sacrifice) and his role as head of family (he hands on the argument to his son). <BR/><BR/>Again, since Plato uses "head" as an image of authority, this is a reasonable interpretation of what he wrote. <BR/><BR/>It appears you have overreacted to a modest blog note.The Sharkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03851874694383578654noreply@blogger.com