tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post6247236008175361599..comments2024-01-29T06:02:39.583-08:00Comments on Suzanne's Bookshelf: The five positions of subordinationSuzanne McCarthyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-17589384810705002212008-09-13T10:45:00.000-07:002008-09-13T10:45:00.000-07:00Thanks for all your comments, and I read your blog...Thanks for all your comments, and I read your blogs. I don't have a lot of free time right now but I want to follow the debate coming in Oct. <BR/><BR/>It is not so much that this view is heresy as that it is terribly dangerous and damaging to all human beings to teach that a man and woman should be in a permanent authority and submission relationship with ALL authority to the male, who never submits and ALL submission to the female who has not authority. <BR/><BR/>I really cannot imagine how complementarians get away with this. <BR/><BR/>Certainly it has helped me to read more about the Sydney diocese also and to understand the theological background of my former pastor. I feel like I am coming out of a cult.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-27085686828329259112008-09-13T03:08:00.000-07:002008-09-13T03:08:00.000-07:00Thank you Janice for your help. It's strange (or n...Thank you Janice for your help. <BR/><BR/>It's strange (or not) that I always felt quite intuitively that there was something not quite right about this way of thinking when I was first introduced to it. At that time, I was experiencing a spiritual awakening and a real desire to get to know God - I couldn't (and still can't) get enough, to put it rather crassly. I was in a vulnerable position, if you like, because I was wanting to feed my spirit and learn how to come into a closer relationship with God and the teaching that I was accessing felt wonderful for most of the time but something was just not quite right. I am certainly no theologian, I have a literature background, but I became hungry to find out for myself how this mystery of the trinity is articulated. At the end of about two years now of looking into these things, I feel a kind of relief, a healing, my view of the trinity remains in tact, despite my anguished explorations. For me it is not about submission, there is a beauty to the harmony of the trinity that I think humanity should just reflect upon in awe, we'll never fully understand it and can only marvel in wonder that the will of God the Father, and of the Son, is indivisible.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your help<BR/><BR/>love Rachel at Re vis.e Re formAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-34848376349732598082008-09-12T04:04:00.000-07:002008-09-12T04:04:00.000-07:00According to Wikipedia Arians say that the Son was...According to <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subordinationist" REL="nofollow">Wikipedia</A> Arians say that the Son was created. They say there was a time when the Son did not exist. By virtue of being a created being the Son is subordinate to the Father.<BR/><BR/>Subordinationists say that the Son and Holy Spirit are heirarchically subordinate/inferior in nature and being to the Father even though they have always existed and are not created.<BR/><BR/>Relational Subordinationists (or Eternal Functional Subordinationists) say that The Son and the Holy Spirit are not inferior to the Father by nature or being but are always obedient to the Father and do His will. <BR/><BR/>But if by nature and being you only ever have someone else's will (and therefore cannot help but be obedient to it) then that makes you not a person at all (maybe you are something like a robot) and, by definition, that makes you inferior to someone who is a person. Therefore Eternal Functional Subordinationism (C) aligns so closely with straight Subordinationism (B) as to make no difference. And therefore Grudem and Ware (and their followers) are heretics despite the word games they play to try to disguise their heresy, perhaps even from themselves. It does not help you to merely assert that you don't believe that the Son and the Holy Spirit are inferior to the Father if you then follow that assertion with a form of words that shows that what you're really saying is that both are, in fact, inferior.<BR/><BR/>"You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19505042.post-37008523266614695532008-09-12T03:09:00.000-07:002008-09-12T03:09:00.000-07:00Thank you for this. It has also helped me to clear...Thank you for this. It has also helped me to clear up the exact nature of what Grudem's and Ware's positions had been - I think I had been guilty of unfairly aligning these views with the A or B position. Csn you explain a little further the difference between A B and C. <BR/>Rachel at Re vis.e Re form.Rev R Marszalekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831340057673771787noreply@blogger.com