Tuesday, November 11, 2008

Authentein posts

Here are a few posts that I have written about authentein. I regret that these are not better organized and are not synthesized into an article. I do not work in this field and simply find spare moments to represent some of the facts on this topic.

It is to my everlasting regret that women are kept out of proper church leadership on the basis of 1 Tim. 2:12, which is best translated as "I do not permit a woman to teach nor master a man, but to be in silence." While I could only suggest possible meanings for this verse, I can say for sure that it is highly unlikely that the author was referring to normal church leadership. The Greek word authentein was not used for church leadership in the NT or in any other documents in early Greek.

Authority 3: Fragment and Paraphrase

In this post I demonstrate why the Philodemus fragment is not evidence for to have authority.

Authority 6: returning to the evidence

This is an overview of the 4 pieces of evidence suggested by some.

Authenteo Resources

BGU 1208

This fragmentary letter is the only occurrence of authenteo preceding the epistle of Timothy. BY now the paucity of evidence and the poor quality of the evidence should be clear.

The LCMS report on autentein

To dictate to

Not lording it over 1 Peter 5:3


J. K. Gayle said...

This fragmentary letter is the only occurrence of authenteo preceding the epistle of Timothy.

Wow. I don't think Paul was being inventive with this word either.

Suzanne, Hope you won't mind my reproducing here some lines from Euripides's Trojan Women. First let me give Paul's lines to Timothy, then Euripides who has Andromache speaking (around line 635). The salient words are bolded for the comparison:

αὐθεντ* /authent*/ "kill*" and then
ἡσυχ* /esych*/ "silen*"

διδάσκειν δὲ γυναικὶ οὐκ ἐπιτρέπω
οὐδὲ αὐθεντεῖν ἀνδρός
ἀλλ' εἶναι ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ (I Tim 2:12)

For a wife/woman to teach (a man/ husband) is not allowed;
for (her) to "kill" a man/ husband (this way) just isn't;
(she's) to be in silence.

ἃ γὰρ γυναιξὶ σώφρον’ ἔσθ’ ηὑρημένα,
ταῦτ’ ἐξεμόχθουν Ἕκτορος κατὰ στέγας.
πρῶτον μέν, ἔνθα — κἂν προσῇ κἂν μὴ προσῇ
ψόγος γυναιξίν — αὐτὸ τοῦτ’ ἐφέλκεται
κακῶς ἀκούειν, ἥτις οὐκ ἔνδον μένει,

τούτου παρεῖσα πόθον ἔμιμνον ἐν δόμοις·
ἔσω τε μελάθρων κομψὰ θηλειῶν ἔπη
οὐκ εἰσεφρούμην, τὸν δὲ νοῦν διδάσκαλον
οἴκοθεν ἔχουσα χρηστὸν ἐξήρκουν ἐμοί.
γλώσσης τε σιγὴν ὄμμα θ’ ἥσυχον πόσει
παρεῖχον· ᾔδη δ’ ἁμὲ χρῆν νικᾶν πόσιν,
κείνῳ τε νίκην ὧν ἐχρῆν παριέναι.

καὶ τῶνδε κληδὼν ἐς στράτευμ’ Ἀχαιϊκὸν
ἐλθοῦσ’ ἀπώλεσέν μ’· ἐπεὶ γὰρ ᾑρέθην,
Ἀχιλλέως με παῖς ἐβουλήθη λαβεῖν
δάμαρτα· δουλεύσω δ’ ἐν αὐθεντῶν δόμοις.

For all that stamps the wife a woman chaste, I strove to do in Hector's home. In the first place, whether there is a slur upon a woman, a wife, or whether there is not, the very fact of her not staying at home brings in its train an evil name;

therefore I gave up any longing to do so, and stayed within my house; nor would I admit indoors the clever gossip women love, but conscious of a heart that told an honest tale I was content. And ever would I keep a silent tongue and modest eye before my husband; and well I knew where I might rule him, and where it was best to yield.

Report of this has reached the Achaean army, and proved my ruin; for when I was taken captive, Achilles' son would want me as his maiden, and I must be a slave in the house of killers.

J. K. Gayle said...

Just to be clear, the phrase γλώσσης τε σιγὴν ὄμμα θ’ ἥσυχον, might be literally "tongue that's mute, eye that's silent." The point is that Paul is saying a woman, wife is to be "silent or modest like a closed mouth or a shut eye." And he is linking that somehow to the αὐθεντ* of the man / husband. Is it the rule over the husband, or the "death" of him, when a wife is not modest and mute?