Sunday, November 21, 2010

Translation Forum continued

I deliberately left a pared down comment on a post at the translation forum and I now can see that it has been permitted. Here it is,
But it is nevertheless a move away from what came before.

Jerome used dominari

Erasmus used autoritatem usurpare

Calvin used auctoritatem sumere
I felt that this was not nearly as stimulating as my previous comment, the one which was removed. However, I shall take this under advisement and prepare more succinct comminqués in future. Thank you, Mr (or Madam) moderator.

I know that for other people this issue has become a bit threadbare. But I am rather fascinated by the lack of attention given to the Latin text of Calvin and Erasmus. Both had an enormous effect on the Bibles of the Reformation. However, along with the translation by Pagnini, they don't get a showing in Bible software, as far as I know.

I am planning a trip to Toronto this spring and will perhaps have another chance to photograph more Pagnini's Latin translation of the Hebrew. I think this is arguably one of the most influential translations in the history of Bible translation, and one of the most ignored.

Anyway, that is why the interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:12 has not completely bored me to death. I look at it in the context of the history of interpretation. I have less interest in what Eve atually knew about the tree and whether she or Adam were more responsible for bringing sin on manki... (whoooa baby) I mean "on humankind."

I do wonder, however, why Grudem, who has so vociferously rejected the translation "usurp authority," has so much to say on Eve's "usurpation" of male authority. "Usurpation" has such a harsh sound. It's a bad word, clearly. But try to claim that that is what authenteo really meant, and the switch is thrown, and we are off on another track. A woman cannot "lead in church." Such a delicate and proper phrase, such a good thing, to lead in church, but a woman may not do it. If she does, it is usurpation, because she has taken something that belongs to man. Whew.

(By "man" well, at school the social workers have anatomically correct dolls in order to make sure that of clear communication. I am not sure what to do on the blog. I will not draw a picture.)


believer333 said...

but now they're only showing 2 responses. And the other fellow has a long answer.

My guess is that they will take all of them down soon enough. Their pride just cannot handle someone disagreeing with them, especially a knowledgeable woman.

Kristen said...

Aww. I want to see a picture! *snark*

Anonymous said...

Now, I know that biblegateway does not allow other researched views.

But then, this is the reason why comp has become so pervasive: censorship of other biblical interpretation views.

Suzanne McCarthy said...

To be fair, the translation forum has allowed several comments in support of the NIV. I hope to find time to post on that, I do think that they have alllowed a variety of comments to be posted.

Melinda McJames said...


I just wanted to post a word of thanks and encouragement for your knowledgeable and patient posts on the Sola Panel.

Mara Reid said...

I know you've already done this and hate to ask you to do it again.
But could you either lay out again the most blatant examples of gender bias in translating the ESV or point me to your previous post that lays that out?
You know, where they use the different English words for the same Greek word. One place it refers to all have sinned or whatever and the use a gender neutral term, but in referring to ministry or leadership the use only masculine.
I really should write these things down and keep notes. Because when I bring it up I can't support it because it was something I read here or there and then can't find it for later.

believer333 said...

Could you please put a search engine on your blog. I can't find anything anymore.

I'm searching for some things you wrote about anthropos and adelphos.

Paula said...

You can always try this for any website (I'll use this one for the example). Go to google and type something like this:

Junia site:

This will search this blog for any occurrence of "Junia".

Paula said...

Mara: there is a nice article and handy chart here: