Saturday, February 26, 2011

Junia, may she live forever

On Out of Ur, there is a series on women in ministry. There is also an extensive comment audience. I find for some commenters, the exegetical conclusions of Wallace and Burer are assumed to be accurate. One commenter writes to another,

You had (essentially) asked about the nature of the textual language in Roms 16:7. After much study and interaction with the text our leadership determined (and this will get technical) that the personal dative did not communicate agency but was elative in the sense that while Andronicus and Junia were not apostles in office they were well known amongst those few who were apostles. Their relationship to the apostles might be like Beth Moore's relationship with evangelical pasotrs. While she doesn't hold the office of pastor she is well known because of her teaching. The dative use of "en" is an important qualifying remark

I wonder if this commenter is aware that en plus the dative is normally inclusive and comparative rather than elative.

ὁ δὲ μείζων ὑμῶν Matt. 23:11 (genitive)
the greatest among you

ὁ μείζων ἐν ὑμῖν Luke 22:26 (en plus dative)
the greatest among you

Also, there is no word of perception in this passage. There is no chance that the apostles were only those to whom Andronicus and Junia were well-known, because there is no word which is parallel to "well-known" in the Greek.

Ah well.


believer333 said...

"because there is no word which is parallel to "well-known" in the Greek."

Well, now that SHOULD be an eye opener for someone. Thanks for that information.

Anonymous said...

People TEND to see what their worldview presupposes they WILL see. So it can be really strange interacting with those who wear blue lenses.

Don Johnson

Lin said...

Thanks for pointing this out!

Tony Johnson said...

Thank you for this most interesting and helpful piece of information.

Tony Johnson

Suzanne McCarthy said...

Some may say that episemos in Greek can mean "well known" in English. But there is no stretch of the imagination that will turn episemos into a "word of perception" in Greek.

I regret that so many remain under the delusion that the NET Bible note has validity.

Muff Potter said...

Suzanne, you remind me of the character "Sportin' Life" in Gershwin's opera "Porgy and Bess". Just when patriarchalists think they've got it all sewn up, you come out with a valid argument that shows "...It ain't necessarily so..."

Keep up the good work! And by the way? Porgy and Bess will live forever too!