Saturday, January 16, 2010

Philip Payne and Peter Head on 1 Cor. 14: 34-35

If you can understand and interact with this blog post, and the thesis of Peter Head, then you will be in a position to join in the conversation regarding whether God wanted women to be silent in the church or not. If you can't, then you have no right to an opinion on the matter.

After 2,000 years and waiting, women still cannot be sure whether God wants them to be able to speak in church or not. Sounds like a crazy-making tyrant, if you ask me. I do not believe in this God, so I won't be holding my breath for the outcome.

You can see how Calvin explained Paul's turnabout on women praying and prophesying. Others believe strongly that verses 34 and 35 of chapter 14 are interpolations. I think they are likely right. There is a weight of evidence which supports this. But should women remain silent until God sees fit to providentially reveal what the original text of this passage was?


Donald Johnson said...

My take is those 1 Cor 14:34-35 must be excised from being God's idea, as they simply make no sense as written.

My preferred way of doing this is to use the 2 eta's in v. 36 as expletives of repudiation and therefore seeing them as a quote from some at Corinth, which would have been immediately recognized by any original reader but might not be recognized as such by us.

Per Payne's teaching, I would also teach the possibility that these 2 verses are an interpolation and not part of the original manuscripts, which also gets rid of them.

The important thing is to dismiss them, the secondary thing is how to do this.

believer333 said...

While these are important points for those who teach and study Scriptures, they are only marginally important for women who have been called by God to speak. Individuals need to yield to God first and foremost. Only we are going to lose in huge ways by not following God because men are arguing over what they think we should be doing or not doing. The men who argue over this will not suffer where they are wrong on this issue EXCEPT they will miss hearing from God through the women He chooses to speak through.

Lin said...

Sometimes Academia can be silly and insulated from common sense. The verse appeals to the "law". So where IS this law?

Just show us the clear and plain "Law" in the Word for silence and we will shut up.

But it is NOT to be found in God's Word. Only in man's.

Gem said...

If you can't [understand and interact with the indicated blog post], then you have no right to an opinion on the matter. -Suzanne

YIKES, Suzanne!

Hopefully your tongue is firmly implanted in your cheek there, because I track with your posts about having rights. :D

Suzanne McCarthy said...

Oh yeah!

I do find their research fascinating, but not if it is attached in any way to what women should do in church. Women ought to stand as equals to men, and not sit about waiting for someone to decipher this passage in about a thousand years from now. :-)

Kristen said...

Yes, Suzanne, yes!

Christians don't realize how their wrangling over whether the Bible allows women to speak or not, appears to the non-Christians they are trying so hard to reach. You can't reach someone who wants nothing to do with you or your God because your position (the position you're thinking God takes) is plainly immoral and wrong.

There is no need for a doctorate in New Testament Greek, for a person to be able to see this. In fact, it looks like sometimes the doctorate gets in the way.

EricW said...

Even if the Bible teaches that:

a) women are to be silent in church, whereas men can speak, and/or
b) women are not to be leaders in church, whereas men can be leaders, and/or
c) women are not to teach men, whereas men can teach women,

and all of this is simply because women are - well, women and not men - then such teaching(s) should be rejected ANYWAY simply because they're wrong. :^D (not to mention stupid)

Fortunately, the Bible does not teach any of the above, though many believe it does.