Saturday, September 26, 2009

here and there

I have added Dr. Claude Mariottini to my sidebar. He frequently posts on women in the Hebrew Bible or other related topics. Browse his recents posts for some interesting discussions.

Another blog that I read frequently are Submission Tyranny. I highly recommend Fireproof: part 1 the faulty premise, and part 2. She writes,
    I must add here that it is the voluntary submission of the wife—submission to avoid an ugly denigrating attack—that causes abusive husbands to attack their wives, either physically or non-physically. When the wife showers her husband with loving and submissive behaviors, many abusers consider that a weakness and "go in for the kill," to thoroughly establish their power and control. Other times an abuser begins to think she is doing it by her own choice, not because of his coercion. Therefore, if her actions originated from her own choice, he is no longer in control. Since she is being so perfect, he must change his rules for her, even if he has to resort to the ridiculous, in order to regain that sense of dominating her. If an abuser has any inner prompting to feel ashamed of himself and change his ways, he tends to quickly squash it and be even more vicious to silence that inner prompting.
This is the reality of submission. It is crazy making. Defending the subordination of women is utter crap.


Rod said...

Thank you Suzanne for the link to the post on Fireproof. I saw the movie out of curiousity and it has as bad of theology as any Christian movie out these days. Christians should just leave the movie business.

gengwall said...

"This is the reality of submission"

I don't follow you Suzanne. Hopefully you meant that this is the reality in an abusive situation, and not that this is the universal reality. If so, Paul is asking wives to foster abuse against them and husbands are universally incapable of reacting positively to submission. I hardly think that was his intent.

Kristen said...

I think what Suzanne meant was, this is the reality of unilateral submission with no requirement/expectation of reciprocation.

Where the husband feels no injunction to humble himself as Christ did and sacrifice his own needs and desires to/for his wife, and where she unquestioningly submits to his every whim-- such an indulgence of sinful human nature on the part of the husband (and lack of exercise of her ezer kenego power to hold him accountable) can hardly help but have bad results.

Bad trees bear bad fruit. . .

Dr. Claude Mariottini said...


Thank you for linking my blog to your blog.

Claude Mariottini

Suzanne McCarthy said...


I haven't seen the movie, but I am guessing that I would not enjoy it so I won't put myself through that. I trust Waneta on this.


I should have linked a long time ago, but I am very hit and miss with my sidebar these days.


In an abusive situation, submission reinforces the abuse, it makes it worse.

If the partner has any abusive tendencies at all, submission encourages and increases this, and creates an abusive situation.

In a couple where submission is held to be mutual, submission has less tendency to create abuse.

If the husband is perfect, submission does not encourage abuse.

I don't personally agree with what is taught in 1 Peter. I don't think we would just cheer on a slave who was being flogged or a wife held in subordination. As Sarah Sumner put it in her book, women are in the pit of indignity and trauma.

That was her description and I couldn't agree more. Some women just deaden certain parts of themselves and some compensate by having other outlets. I know some women who are depressed and others who have become incredible artists, both in subordination.

We do what we can, but is it right?

Rod said...

Suzanne, I saw the movie for the second time coincidentally at a food kitchen for the homeless.

Here is what I had to say: